SSON Podcast: Katarzyna Szaroleta, DFDS

Seth Adler:

Katarzyna Szaroleta joins us. First some supporters to thank. And thank you for listening.

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Katarzyna Szaroletaof DFDS joins us from SSOW in Budapest and shares that the HR role is quite wide and complex. She notes her main responsibility as helping managers become better managers and so she sees her role as that of a coach or advisor. Katarzyna helps develop skills and talents while avoiding mistakes. A team leader is traditionally a former SMA who is an operationally talented person. Managing soft skills is where the rubber meets the road for a would-be successful manager and Katarzyna points out that skills can be taught if the manager in question has a predisposition for that side of management. From there, Katarzyna is managing personality types for ultimate success. Welcome to SSON on B2B IQ, I'm your host Seth Adler. Download episodes on SSONetwork.com or through our App in iTunes within the iTunes podcast app, in Google Play, or wherever you currently get your podcasts.

Katarzyna Szaroleta.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

You know in Poland, Katarzyna is quite a popular name-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And unfortunately on my team there are two Katarzyna's.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

So just not to confuse people they call me Katarzyna with the full name and my colleague Kasha.

Seth Adler:

Oh.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

But-

Seth Adler:

So I need to call you Katarzyna.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

You may call me both because you can't see the other Kasha.

Seth Adler:

Sure.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

So you-

Seth Adler:

But she can hear this though.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yes she can.

Seth Adler:

Right. So we need to call you Katarzyna, I think it's that.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

But you pronounce it now very well.

Seth Adler:

Why thank you, it's because I'm practicing as we go. Alright so you mentioned your job title but what is your job function, what are you focused on doing I guess?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Well you were right that HR role is quite wide.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And quite complex.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And my main responsibility is to help managers become better managers.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

So I see my role rather as a coach than a manager, rather as a advise this entity known as a kind manager. So I help to develop their skills, their talents-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Sometimes avoid mistakes.

Seth Adler:

A coach of coaches.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yes.

Seth Adler:

Right?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Something like that.

Seth Adler:

Yeah. And how many coaches are there?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Well I try to coach other manager to become coaches.

Seth Adler:

This is it.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yes.

Seth Adler:

So how many, what I'm getting at is the kind of the size and the scope of the organization and where everybody sits. So where is your actual office.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Well my actual office is in Póznan-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And we hire, there are 220 people.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And we've got only four managers.

Seth Adler:

I see.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Except me. So it's quite, not enough-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

But then we've got 14 team leaders, it's like a first level of supervisors.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And their role is crucial for organization.

Seth Adler:

Of course.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Because they've got the biggest impact on the team on their performance but also on their engagement.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And normally it is like team leader becomes the person who was a great expert-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

In the role so it's operationally talented person but not always that person has the soft skills.

Seth Adler:

Yeah. Can those be taught?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

At some extent yes. If you've got some disposition-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And some talents yes.

Seth Adler:

Okay.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

But there are people with different behavioral models.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And if they are purely oriented into facts and data-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Not into the people it is very difficult.

Seth Adler:

If you're overly analytic it might be difficult for you to-

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Precisely.

Seth Adler:

Find-

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Precisely.

Seth Adler:

Yeah.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Precisely, because then you try to see data, you try to simplify people and human being is so complex-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative)

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

That it is simply impossible to predict. So you as team leader, the best solution is you as a team leader should be as open as possible because every single day you might find surprises.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). And so there's obviously a spectrum of humanity and some people are-

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yes.

Seth Adler:

Much, much better and much, much more comfortable in that area and some, as we're mentioning, are simply not.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yes.

Seth Adler:

How do you coach the coaches to be open, as you say?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Well, first step is to become aware.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Of the tools, the basic tools and of the role that they can be coaches.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And the second thing, extremely important is that each coach should listen, should be focused on the other person.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

In this area of Europe it is extremely difficult because our main model of leadership is to be directive rather to tell person to do things-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Instead of ask and support other, so it is very difficult and it is the crucial point. The manager needs to understand that asking questions and listening to others is more beneficial.

Seth Adler:

And so you say this part of Europe, and we're at SSOW Eastern Europe-

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yeah.

Seth Adler:

You sit in Poland however-

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Seth Adler:

And if you ask my girlfriend who's Polish she will tell you that that is Central Europe, right?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yeah.

Seth Adler:

Sure. It can be. I wonder how much of it is cultural versus generational.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Seth Adler:

Meaning we have Generation X which is me, we have Millennials, which is not me, and we have, as you say, this part of Europe whether it's Central, Eastern, whatever. So how much of what you're talking about is cultural versus generational.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

I think it's much, especially at the moment.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Because looking at the generation gap we've got, in Central Eastern Europe-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

We've got the Generation who had poor role models-

Seth Adler:

Okay.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Or no models.

Seth Adler:

Okay.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

We are in communistic area.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

There were no international leadership style presented for some time.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

So in fact they had really bad experiences-

Seth Adler:

Sure.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Or no experiences in this area. So they are very directive. And young people just simply now prefer more democratic style. They want to be involved.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

They want to see the purpose, they need to see the purpose.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And older generation, if you were told to that you were obliged to do that.

Seth Adler:

Yeah. That's what, that's how I did it as well when I first came into the workforce, they told me what to do and I did it.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yeah. And now you, you know, young people, sometimes in Western Europe even older people they just notice that they've got a choice.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

They've got impact on their life, they've got impact on their tasks.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Then they can choose between companies, between roles. And now the situation has changed.

Seth Adler:

And now this is where your job becomes difficult because now you to focus on retention.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yes indeed.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

That's quite difficult and, you know, during this conference there were two main topics-

Seth Adler:

Okay.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

[inaudible 00:09:13] and attrition.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

This is, those two topics are of course the hottest topics of all.

Seth Adler:

Uh-huh.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

But, and we mentioned different tools, how to fight with attrition, we mentioned employee branding-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative.)

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

We mentioned some digitalization-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Of course these are useful tools but people leave the company not because of the company but because of their direct supervisor.

Seth Adler:

Ah-hah. Which gets us back to coaching the coaches.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Exactly.

Seth Adler:

Alright, so then now we need to find out how to know what you're talking about, right? How are you the person that's coaching the coaches? So you're from Poland.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yes I'm from Poland.

Seth Adler:

Where in Poland?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

I was in Póznan.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Then-

Seth Adler:

And where is this in the country, because Poland's a big country.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

It is in the Western part of-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Poland.

Seth Adler:

Okay.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

In fact, Póznan is quite close to Berlin.

Seth Adler:

Okay.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Comparing Berlin and Warsaw, we are closer to Berlin than to Warsaw.

Seth Adler:

How much of that, I guess, Germanic influence is there on that city? You know, compared to many some others.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Well, it's one of the biggest cities in Poland.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And We are having good universities et cetera, so there were never any kind of complex situation. I think that in Eastern Poland when the time when I was born-

Seth Adler:

Uh-huh.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Their might be like some kind of complex, et cetera. I was born in a city was well developed.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

I had plenty of opportunities, so ...

Seth Adler:

Eastern Poland meaning past Warsaw is what we're saying?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yes.

Seth Adler:

Or in Warsaw as well?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Past Warsaw. Warsaw and past Warsaw. You know, Warsaw is the kind of, if you draw a line-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

That passes Warsaw, west, east from Warsaw area which is quite rural-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And there are small towns rather than cities.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And in Western part of Poland you've got like five big cities there is Gdansk-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Wroclaw, Krakow, Póznan so it's definitely-

Seth Adler:

You have to mention Wodge.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Wodge. Yes, yes.

Seth Adler:

I mean, come on.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Your girlfriend is from Wodge.

Seth Adler:

Exactly.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And it's growing-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

It is a really big city now.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

We've got Katowice, which is also quite bit.

Seth Adler:

Okay. Alright, so there are these big cities and you come from one of them-

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yeah.

Seth Adler:

Over in the West.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yeah.

Seth Adler:

When did you realize what you might be good at?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

That's a very interesting question. You know, when I chose my university-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

I saw myself in a different area.

Seth Adler:

How so? What did you see yourself?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

I wanted to be a traveler.

Seth Adler:

Uh-huh. Just a traveler? Did you notice that you-

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Explore the world and that's why I-

Seth Adler:

How were going to be paid for this?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

I've never asked that question. I studied English and Chinese for five years.

Seth Adler:

Okay. Alright.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And then it stopped when I visited China for the very first time.

Seth Adler:

Uh-huh.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

I hated the experience.

Seth Adler:

You didn't like it?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

I just hate it.

Seth Adler:

Why?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

I truly hate it.

Seth Adler:

Why? Why was this such a unpleasant experience?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

I was like 19 year old girl-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

With the blonde hair.

Seth Adler:

Sure.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

So everyone touches me.

Seth Adler:

Literally?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Literally.

Seth Adler:

Like a pregnant woman, people touch her?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yes. Yes.

Seth Adler:

Right.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

So I was touched because everyone believed-

Seth Adler:

Oh geez.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

I would bring luck.

Seth Adler:

Okay. Oh God.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

I just hated that.

Seth Adler:

I would have hated that too. Yeah, no, that's a fair answer.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

So then, traveling across the country and I visited not only main cities-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

But also some countryside.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

They treated me as an alien.

Seth Adler:

Okay.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And uh-

Seth Adler:

So they didn't want to touch you?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Well for example, there were very, very few funny situations.

Seth Adler:

Okay.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And I don't think I could even share with you during the interview.

Seth Adler:

Fair enough.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

But this is definitely the culture that I can't work with.

Seth Adler:

It wasn't, as we say in HR, it wasn't a match. Right?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

No. No. That was a very poor match.

Seth Adler:

Okay so we left. And then-

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yeah and-

Seth Adler:

Where did you go?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Then I moved to Newcastle.

Seth Adler:

This is in England, you know.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yes.

Seth Adler:

Alright and they have beer there.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yes. And the Geordie lived there and Geordie language was the strangest language, I thought that I couldn't speak English being in Newcastle.

Seth Adler:

Yeah. Geordie?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yes.

Seth Adler:

I don't know, do I not know what that is?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Um, Geordie it's a dialect in Northumberland-

Seth Adler:

Yep.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And it's very-

Seth Adler:

In North where?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Northumberland, it's an area of Great Britain.

Seth Adler:

Uh-huh.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Just beneath Scotland.

Seth Adler:

Okay.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And they speak with a very, very, very different accent.

Seth Adler:

Interesting.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

For example-

Seth Adler:

Yeah.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

They say "tune" for town.

Seth Adler:

Oh.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

"Brune" for brown.

Seth Adler:

Sure.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

"Ale" for, "Brune Ale" for brown ale.

Seth Adler:

Uh-huh.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

"Lass" for girlfriend.

Seth Adler:

Uh-huh.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

So they've got a different-

Seth Adler:

A whole thing going on.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Vocabulary.

Seth Adler:

Sure.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And different accent.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

So I felt like on a different planet than-

Seth Adler:

Because you-

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

England.

Seth Adler:

And you're thinking to yourself, "I know English pretty well here."

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Seth Adler:

Is it me, did I not learn the language correctly?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yeah. I had this impression-

Seth Adler:

Mmmm.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

But then I spent there over a year.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

I connected my last year at the university and I tried to also earn some money.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

It was 2005 so just a year after Poland entered European Union.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

So that seemed to be a fantastic way.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And I met great people.

Seth Adler:

Okay.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

I truly loved them, truly the way of living.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Their passion.

Seth Adler:

No matter how they spoke.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

No matter.

Seth Adler:

You still loved them.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

I, frankly speaking, it took about two, three months-

Seth Adler:

To pick it up.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Then it was easy. Like the first reaction was a kind of shock reaction.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

But then it was easy.

Seth Adler:

You settled in and you said, you tried to make my, how did you work that angle of your life?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

That was, I worked in the night shift-

Seth Adler:

Uh-huh.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

In a factory that produced touch screens.

Seth Adler:

Really?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yes and I was technician there.

Seth Adler:

Really?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Really. With no technical background.

Seth Adler:

Yeah how did you get that job if you had no-

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

I think they had a problem with retention.

Seth Adler:

I see. Which is something you're familiar with now. So what did you pick up there, I guess, if you're kind of thrown into this job that you don't know how to do?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Well they told me everything, what I should know.

Seth Adler:

What I'm saying is, in your mind what did you pick up?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

That it was just a tool to earn money and working at that moment was a kind of tool to enable to me to finish my university.

Seth Adler:

Sure.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

So I just treated this as a tool and nothing more. I met, of course, great people-

Seth Adler:

Yeah.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Very different to me.

Seth Adler:

Right.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

But very open-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

But it wasn't a very huge discovery in my life.

Seth Adler:

Alright so then this is, we have to move from tool to actual career.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Exactly.

Seth Adler:

When was the first kind of moment of, "Oh wait a second, I could do this and I could do this for a while."

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

That was very shortly after I was back from Newcastle.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Because then I just wrote my master thesis, I graduate Philology at that time I could-

Seth Adler:

Where is that?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Philology it's a university degree of foreign languages.

Seth Adler:

Oh wow. I thought you were mentioning the institution-

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

No.

Seth Adler:

And this is the degree.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

It's a degree.

Seth Adler:

Philology.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Philology. Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Seth Adler:

I've never heard of that.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

English Philology, or Chinese Philology it's a degree.

Seth Adler:

Huh.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

So I had those two, I was sure that Chinese is not for me.

Seth Adler:

Right. We're out on that.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And then, you know, English Philology and teaching, it's a very interesting path.

Seth Adler:

Okay.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

I enjoyed it-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

During university, I also worked as an english teacher for children, adults, different way.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

But it is a very poor paid profession in Poland.

Seth Adler:

Not going to make a lot of money.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

No.

Seth Adler:

Yeah. People will love you-

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yeah.

Seth Adler:

But you're not going to make a lot of money.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And I'm the kind of person who love independency.

Seth Adler:

I see.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And then I had a kind of research in my mind, what else could I do to use my skills-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

With people, with teaching, et cetera.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And HR seemed to be the most rational choice.

Seth Adler:

Interesting. Now how did you arrive on that. Because obviously in retrospect this makes perfect sense but how did you, was there a light bulb moment of, "Well you know what brings everything together here? That."

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

I think I spent, I can still remember I spent a few days-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Just literally, a few days thinking about my future.

Seth Adler:

Uh-huh.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

It may seem strange but I was, I felt-

Seth Adler:

Seems like a good investment of time, actually.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yeah but I felt a huge need.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

I was out of money, I was just at the crossroad-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Where should I go-

Seth Adler:

Yeah.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Because of course I could pick up any teacher opportunity, any teacher job and still continue with fighting for money, et cetera.

Seth Adler:

Yeah.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Or I could just risk and find some experience within HR area. And I decided to invest my time and effort and my first job was for nothing.

Seth Adler:

Meaning money?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Meaning money.

Seth Adler:

Right.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

I just spent a year in a company who recruits people for different entities.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

I spent there over a year.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Without money. Zero.

Seth Adler:

Oh, zero dollars actually.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Zero.

Seth Adler:

Oh so it was like an internship.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Something like that.

Seth Adler:

Uh-huh.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

But in fact I spent there 8 hours a day, every day.

Seth Adler:

I see. I see.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And I was responsible for things. So I didn't call it internship.

Seth Adler:

I see. It was a job where you got paid nothing.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yeah.

Seth Adler:

And you seem disappointed that that happened.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Well now-

Seth Adler:

Yeah.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Now with the present attitude of people-

Seth Adler:

Yes.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Even interns do not want to work for nothing.

Seth Adler:

Right.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

So I feel like an idiot at the moment.

Seth Adler:

Because it would never happen now is your point.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

No. No.

Seth Adler:

So now I'm just learning that we must be at least similar in age because it could have happened-

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yes.

Seth Adler:

To me as a generation X type of person.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yes.

Seth Adler:

Right?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yes.

Seth Adler:

Alright, so now we understand how you've gotten into HR and I wonder when you're sitting with someone across the table from you, when you're coaching a coach-

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Seth Adler:

How much of your experience in China, how much of your experience in England, how much of your experience in the actually working in the touch screen factory, how much of your experience sitting there for three days and actually thinking about what you wanted to do, and putting it all together, you know you've had disappointment, you've certainly be repelled at certain points from certain things-

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Seth Adler:

How much of all of that experience do you draw on to kind of coach the coaches and how much do you actually share with them?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

You know, that's a very good question. I try to be conscious-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Of my past-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And my future and I'm trying to be conscious that the present situation of the young people is so different.

Seth Adler:

How so?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

For example they do not have this dilemma, work for nothing or what would be my future. They can make choice easily-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Without huge consequences.

Seth Adler:

Right.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

So in fact they might behave in a more risky way because they do no risk anything.

Seth Adler:

Right.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

So I, frankly speaking, I-

Seth Adler:

Wait, wait, wait, wait, I just want to, I'm sorry. I want to make sure I cut because I thought I understood where you were going with it, that they, say it one more time.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

They may risk-

Seth Adler:

Yeah.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

But they risk nothing. For example-

Seth Adler:

Yeah.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

They've got the opportunity to make different decisions.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And there is no consequence. For example, they may go to one employer-

Seth Adler:

Yes.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And then if they are not happy-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Easily, they can choose from plenty of others.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). There's no consequence because-

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Exactly.

Seth Adler:

If they put themselves out of a job they can get a job the next day.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yes.

Seth Adler:

Because the labor market is healthy and-

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

I wouldn't say it's very healthy-

Seth Adler:

Well so that's-

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

It's easy for them.

Seth Adler:

Because they're still at essentially entry-level-

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yeah.

Seth Adler:

And so I can just kind of tag on anywhere. What happen in 5 years when that same person keeps doing this?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Well we'll see.

Seth Adler:

Right.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

We'll see, that's a very good question but I do not know the answer.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

If the market is still as it is-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

That person may survive.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

If the market will change and if the market becomes more stable-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

That choice might be not rational anymore but-

Seth Adler:

But who knows.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Who knows.

Seth Adler:

And so as we sit here right now, what do you do, we talked about employee branding, what do you do to kind of support this mindset?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). I'm trying to forget about my past because my past was totally different-

Seth Adler:

It does not help here.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

No. No. And very often my managers-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Well they feel offended or feel very surprised in a negative way-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

How person for example can complain on that.

Seth Adler:

I see.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

They are at work, they are supposed to work-

Seth Adler:

Yeah.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Et cetera.

Seth Adler:

Right.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

I can hear those comments all the time.

Seth Adler:

Right.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And then just trying to cool them down a bit and trying to show their perspective. And try to encourage them to spend more time with youngsters-

Seth Adler:

Sure.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

With employees.

Seth Adler:

Yeah.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Because everyone has some motivation, it is just simply different.

Seth Adler:

So your advice to the manager is to understand the motivation of the employee in question-

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Precisely.

Seth Adler:

When the manager is saying, "I don't understand the motivation of the person because it's completely different to my motivation."

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Precisely. And if you try to manage the team-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Having just your own perspective, which is a poor match.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

It's tragedy.

Seth Adler:

So then how do I depend, if I'm one of my managers and you're coaching me-

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Seth Adler:

I have a certain amount of wisdom based on the fact that I've been walking around here on earth for a little bit.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Seth Adler:

Some of that wisdom, some of that experience does not apply.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Seth Adler:

What might apply though? What does apply?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Well coaching needs time.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And coaching doesn't work if the manager, if the coachee-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Doesn't need to, doesn't see the need for it. So coaching needs mistakes. If you make mistakes, if you are in a difficult situation then you're just looking for some other answers-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And some other solutions and that's the point where I enter, "Okay, you used your way-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

"It didn't work-"

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

"Let's try to look for other possibilities."

Seth Adler:

But you do have to, so this is an interesting thing because what you're saying because what you're saying is, "Let it fail-

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Seth Adler:

"In order to coach."

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Seth Adler:

Now I spoke with another executive who said the same millennial mindset, we need to give that person actual real responsibility and guide them through that real responsibility whereas with someone in a Gen X, when we came in we would wait to give them responsibility, you know, just do this mindless task and when you prove that you can do that then we'll give you responsibility and we don't have to, kind of, monitor you as much because you've been around and we trust you.

Whereas, now we've got to go ahead and give that person responsibility and monitor them. But what you're saying is if we combine the two thoughts, we've got to give that person a fair amount of responsibility and then also let that person fail, which provides risk to the organization. So how do you square that circle?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

I think it's combined because making mistakes, it's the natural, inevitable part of learning.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And developing.

Seth Adler:

This is going to happen anyway.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Exactly.

Seth Adler:

Okay.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

The only thing is that when the person makes a mistake-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

It could be fantastic if anyone could help to find a better solution for the future.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

In a simple or smart way. And that's why I'm not a great fan of huge trainings.

Seth Adler:

I see.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Trainings are important-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Of course they are but training is a kind of injection. If there is no support, no follow-up, no real life examples-

Seth Adler:

Yes.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Then it's lost.

Seth Adler:

Beware of what happens before and after the training.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Precisely.

Seth Adler:

As well as what's happening within the training.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yes.

Seth Adler:

And if there's nothing happening before and certainly nothing happening after, you might as well forget it.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yeah. But I also laughed at this part of trust.

Seth Adler:

How so?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Because all people-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Especially young people, they feel stronger when they feel mutual trust. In fact then they are more connected-

Seth Adler:

Hmm.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

To the employer and to the company because that's how you build the bond between two sides.

Seth Adler:

Sure, if when they both have trust.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yeah.

Seth Adler:

And how do you built the trust from your side to that side?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Well I think it's still going on and it's still a kind of huge challenge because it's mutual-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And it requires not only me but all management and employees to take, to start this journey.

Seth Adler:

Yeah and I think you said it early on, you said you're coaching them to be open.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yeah.

Seth Adler:

And that is where maybe the trust comes from, when I open up then you can see that I'm literally opening up to you-

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yes.

Seth Adler:

You can see that I would be interested in trusting you and you might be interested in trusting me.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yeah but you will not see when writing an email.

Seth Adler:

Right. What do you mean by that?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

That there are some types, especially those fact oriented people that definitely prefer writing to talking.

Seth Adler:

I see.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

So you just need to start with the method of communication.

Seth Adler:

Kind of get up out of the seat there and go over and be a human type of thing?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yeah.

Seth Adler:

Back it up with an email, maybe.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yes. Yes.

Seth Adler:

Right.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

But you need to start with the direct interaction and DFDS in Póznan, we have financial shared service centers-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

So very often these are financial geeks, accountants, who are promoted to be a team leader-

Seth Adler:

I see.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

But still they've got a data mindset.

Seth Adler:

Uh-huh. A spreadsheet mindset.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yeah.

Seth Adler:

You look into their brains and you see Excel.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yes. Yes.

Seth Adler:

And we need a little bit more Word. Right?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Precisely.

Seth Adler:

So I've got three final questions for you, and I'll tell you what they are and then I'll ask you them in order.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Okay.

Seth Adler:

What has most surprised you at work along the way, and this is including everything that we talked about.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Seth Adler:

What's most surprised you in life? And on the soundtrack of your life, one track, one song that's got to be on there. But first thing's first. What has most surprised you at work?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Hmmm ... Well I will just pick up the recent surprise.

Seth Adler:

Okay.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

You know, DFDS is the first shared service that I worked for.

Seth Adler:

Okay.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Before I worked for Samsung group.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

For digital service companies and I worked in Warsaw.

Seth Adler:

Okay.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Warsaw is the capital with international investments, international mindset, et cetera.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

So despite the fact that Póznan is a big city I had a huge impression that now I entered a production company.

Seth Adler:

Huh.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And that surprised. I had a kind of 10 year gap and-

Seth Adler:

A ten year gap, how do you mean?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Because before joining-

Seth Adler:

Yeah. Yeah.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

DFDS I worked in Warsaw-

Seth Adler:

Right.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

So it was a ten year gap between Warsaw to Póznan.

Seth Adler:

Oh I see, from before.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yes.

Seth Adler:

Because you know Póznan from before.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yes.

Seth Adler:

I see.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

But it was like a different perspective.

Seth Adler:

It wasn't returning home again is the point.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Exactly.

Seth Adler:

Home had changed.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yes. And I think shared service culture-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Is also very, very different. People are, I was so surprised how demanding they are, how-

Seth Adler:

In what way?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

In the wishes. All the time they wish new things, like vegetables, fruit, new coffee, parties, et cetera. I really know and I'm aware that young people are motivated with four F, fun, friends, feedback, and flexibility.

Seth Adler:

I thought you were going to say food.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

No. But it's fun.

Seth Adler:

Could be a fifth, right?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yeah it could be. But even working for my previous company I worked with young people-

Seth Adler:

Yeah.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

They were fun, creative, flexible, et cetera-

Seth Adler:

Yeah.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

But you know, the way they shared their demands-

Seth Adler:

Yes.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Was in a totally different manner.

Seth Adler:

What's these four f's again for everybody.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Fun-

Seth Adler:

Yeah.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Friends-

Seth Adler:

Uh-huh.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Feedback-

Seth Adler:

Yes.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And flexibility.

Seth Adler:

Okay so flexibility, we get, we know that, managing we got it, we've talked about that many times. Fun and friends, so fun is of course we'll do and we'll go bowling, probably not, but along those lines.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yeah.

Seth Adler:

What about friends, what are we saying there?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Well I treat it as a kind of social affiliation. They like being socially connected.

Seth Adler:

Hmm.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

So after work they like spending some time together, they like having friends at work.

Seth Adler:

So provide that is what you're saying.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yes.

Seth Adler:

Yeah. It's on you to provide that essentially.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yeah like I'm providing team lunches.

Seth Adler:

Uh-huh.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Integration events, special breakfast, yes. I'm also a kind of-

Seth Adler:

Party planner?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Event organizer, entertainment-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Provider.

Seth Adler:

Right.

What has most surprised you in life? It might be that this is your role, right? You know?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

I'm the kind of thinker and I try to analyze things.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

But what's surprised me ... I think becoming a mother surprised me the most.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

I was quite young when I gave birth to my first daughter.

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And that was the biggest surprise.

Seth Adler:

I see.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

That's my life just was up and down.

Seth Adler:

Possibly now all about her as opposed to all about you, right?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yeah something like that.

Seth Adler:

Is she the only one or-

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

No I've got two. The oldest is 8-

Seth Adler:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And the younger is 3.

Seth Adler:

Two girls.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Seth Adler:

Oh good luck.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

My husband is quite happy with that.

Seth Adler:

Sure. Sure. He doesn't have to, you know. So on the soundtrack of your life, one track, one song that's gotta be on there. So this doesn't have to be the perfect song, this doesn't have to be your favorite song, but as we've gone to China and then to England and then from Póznan to Warsaw and back, one song or at least, there are many songs but at least one of the songs that's got to be on the soundtrack of your life.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Can I pick up a group-

Seth Adler:

Sure.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

A music band?

Seth Adler:

Yeah.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

I'm a different generation, but-

Seth Adler:

Not than me.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yeah. I love U2.

Seth Adler:

Uh-huh.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And I think they've got quite many interesting songs.

Seth Adler:

Sure.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Like With or Without You or Streets Without Names.

Seth Adler:

Yeah, Where the Streets Have No Names, sure.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And in fact the whole album Joshua Tree-

Seth Adler:

Of course.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Is really great, so ...

Seth Adler:

Well this was a, we must be almost exactly the same age because Joshua Tree was like the biggest album that there could have ever been.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yes.

Seth Adler:

At the time.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

And you know that they've got a concert tour with this album again, now.

Seth Adler:

No.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yes.

Seth Adler:

They're just doing that album.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yes.

Seth Adler:

Oh boy. Alright.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

So try to check it, I know that-

Seth Adler:

I feel like yeah, maybe.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

They had a concert in Berlin.

Seth Adler:

Uh-huh.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

So, and they are doing it around Europe and the world.

Seth Adler:

Yeah. My friend is a very big U2 fan, I'm not big of a U2 fan but this has happened on my watch, so to speak, you know the band is part of my life just by the nature of the way time works.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Seth Adler:

And so this sounds like maybe a show that I should go to, right?

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Yeah.

Seth Adler:

Katarzyna, this has been a pleasure thank you for sharing with me, thank you for being open.

Katarzyna Szaroleta:

Thank you too.

Seth Adler:

And there you have Katarzyna Szaroleta. The first step is to become aware of the basic tools and of the fact that they can be coaches. Second is that each coach should listen. The manager needs to understand that asking questions and listening to others is most beneficial. Very much appreciate Katarzyna and her time, very much appreciate you and yours. Stay tuned.